Which SQ sub would u choose for this application ?
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  1. #1
    Kopral Satu
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    Which SQ sub would u choose for this application ?

    Hi,

    I'm Azran, i'm new here. Actually I'm from Malaysia, i understand maybe 40-50% of your languange but i prefer to type in English to prevent me, myself, or you guys from getting confused.

    These questions below is just for my general knowledge, my imagination, not my real setup..but i would like to gather knowledge here as i know, here there's plenty of people who is really serious in SQ setup with marvelous equipment and of cos with very wide knowledge and experience.

    The imagination setup is as below :

    It's a 4.1 way setup

    HU : unknown
    Tweeter : unknown (HP at 5000Hz)
    Midrange : unknown (HP at 300Hz and LP at 5000Hz)
    Midbass : 6.5" midbass from Focal KRX3 comp set (HP at 80Hz and LP at 300Hz)
    Woofer : Focal Be 21WX - 8" (HP at 40Hz or 50Hz and LP at 80Hz) - 2 pieces (1 pair)

    All amps : unknown (sufficient enough for all drivers)


    So, the question is, which SQ subwoofer is would u choose for this kinda setup (money no object) ? It's not an SPL setup, but a bit SQL is ok...as the subwoofer would be installed in front. The subwoofer characteristic priority would be, it have to be precise, accurate without overhang, can go very low without muddy or boomy (to cover 40Hz or 50Hz and below), clean without any noise, tight, fast enough to catch up with any songs (RnB, audiophile, Pop, Rock, Metal and all).


    The sub would be installed in front like picture below :


    The sub's enclosure would be mounted either in Location A or Location B.


    Location C is certainly for the Focal Be 21WX - 8" woofer which is under the seat as illustrated below :

    And the enlosure for the 21WX woofer is either the 2 mounting

    The reason of installing a pair of 21WX under the front left and front right seat is to help the midbass to 'push' more tight midbass freq as we know, most 6.5" midbasses have not enough 'kick' as the freq roll faster below 100Hz.

    Why pair and not one 21WX ? the reason is to get more SPL while still tight and fast, and still 'balance' between left and right bass.


    Now comes the questions :

    1) Between Location A and Location B, which do u choose to mount the sub ?

    2) Which sub u choose that fill the criteria the most ?


    The sub that has in my mind is 9" Scans 23W with it's passive radiator OR 12" Mac Audio Aliante (Phase Aliante) OR JL 10W7 OR JL 8W7 OR JL 10W6 OR RS Audio 12" Competition sub. Any other sub better ?


    Sorry for the very very long questions/description hehe...bear with me :p


    edited : Sub in Location B is actually in the foot well or under the dash

  2. Jaya Bet
  3. #2
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    its hard to answer ur questions cause u didnt know the brand of the hu, tweeter, midrange...
    cause for me, its important to know the spec of the driver....
    if u want to build a 3 way system like that, i prefer put my cutting point freq for tweeter upper than 5Khz dan the midrange lower than 3Khz...
    but it depends on the driver too....



    but for subs i prefer location B, using 10inc subs, say aliante or JL 10 inc W7

    cause if u place the subs in location C, it maybe cause a problem, the phase shift of midbass drivers could meet the phase shift of the subs...

    hope u can understand my bad english

    hehehehhe
    thanks
    Mega Glodok Kemayoran Lt 6 Blok B2 No.9-10
    Kemayoran / Jakarta Pusat
    Tlp.021 99691521

  4. #3
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    I prefer B.

    The A position is too close to the listener i believe.
    Hence the listener will be able to locate the sub's sound.

    And B will help push the staging even more forward.
    The Beast - Sound Quality Audio Processor
    The Altair - HiFi Speaker

  5. #4
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    Oh,
    and for crossover cutting freq.

    You will need a very good driver and crossover (probably 3rd order or even more) to make it works when you're cutting tweeter and midrange at the same freq. Or else there will be a peak in that freq.
    The Beast - Sound Quality Audio Processor
    The Altair - HiFi Speaker

  6. #5
    Jendral
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    Quote Originally Posted by masswork View Post
    Oh,
    and for crossover cutting freq.

    You will need a very good driver and crossover (probably 3rd order or even more) to make it works when you're cutting tweeter and midrange at the same freq. Or else there will be a peak in that freq.
    nah ini mksd saya
    Mega Glodok Kemayoran Lt 6 Blok B2 No.9-10
    Kemayoran / Jakarta Pusat
    Tlp.021 99691521

  7. #6
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    thx bro Neusounds and bro masswork for the reply. No worries about the english, my english also not so good as i'm not an englishman either kekekekekeke

    ok, sorry for the Midrange and the tweeter xover point. i just randomly type the xover point as i'm not very familiar with tuning as all the tuning job done by my tuner.

    now my setup is far from the above example...just very average setup.

    but what i wanted to know is the location and the sub that u guys wanted to choose.


    ok, from my reading and knowledge, the JL subs usually people say as not that fast..not that tight compare to other SQ subs but of cos it does 'punch' a very good SPL though. what is ur comment on this ? is it true ?

    And about Aliante, some say it wont be loud enough to perform well when play RnB and techno music. So, when mounted in foot well...is this statement still true ?


    now come the extra question :

    - If we add the 21WX as a pair and maybe we leave them to play to their lowest notes (without setting their HP), do u think they are sufficient enough to carry the sub duty ?

    - Related to above question, do u think that we still need the 'real' subwoofer if we already have a pair of 21WX ?

  8. #7
    Jendral
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamefox850 View Post
    thx bro Neusounds and bro masswork for the reply. No worries about the english, my english also not so good as i'm not an englishman either kekekekekeke

    ok, sorry for the Midrange and the tweeter xover point. i just randomly type the xover point as i'm not very familiar with tuning as all the tuning job done by my tuner.

    now my setup is far from the above example...just very average setup.

    but what i wanted to know is the location and the sub that u guys wanted to choose.


    ok, from my reading and knowledge, the JL subs usually people say as not that fast..not that tight compare to other SQ subs but of cos it does 'punch' a very good SPL though. what is ur comment on this ? is it true ?

    And about Aliante, some say it wont be loud enough to perform well when play RnB and techno music. So, when mounted in foot well...is this statement still true ?


    now come the extra question :

    - If we add the 21WX as a pair and maybe we leave them to play to their lowest notes (without setting their HP), do u think they are sufficient enough to carry the sub duty ?

    - Related to above question, do u think that we still need the 'real' subwoofer if we already have a pair of 21WX ?
    first, i never used 21WX
    so i dont know what that 21WX can do...
    but 21WX is 8inc woofer, so i think, the best way is, use tweeter, midrange and 21wx as midbass and still use subs for the lowest freq...
    is it what u meant too ?
    Mega Glodok Kemayoran Lt 6 Blok B2 No.9-10
    Kemayoran / Jakarta Pusat
    Tlp.021 99691521

  9. #8
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    bro Neusounds : no no, what i meant is that use the basic 3 way (tweeter, midrange and midbass) with additional of the 21WX (pair) as a sub.

    I know that 1 piece of 21WX can't go low but what about a pair ?

    below is the spec from focal...maybe u know something that i don't know :

    http://www.focal-america.com/extras/specs/utopia/21Wx_spec.pdf

  10. #9
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    Setting and planning subs in car is "tricky".

    Afaik Focal 21WX "can't" deliver note below 30Hz or so (CMIIW, spec sheet required).
    In car, where its interior usually "amplify" low freq - that 30Hz number may be enough.
    So, the need of 'real' subwoofer best determined when the installation already completed.

    Personally, assuming the installations (enclosure, cutting freq and stuff) are optimum, i don't really think you'll need a 'real' sub.
    The Beast - Sound Quality Audio Processor
    The Altair - HiFi Speaker

  11. #10
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    i see. u mean the 'cabin gain' is it ? ok now i get the picture.

    "probably" a pair of 21WX in an optimum enclosure already enough to make deep bass sound while still tight and punchy in a little highed bass freq (up to 80Hz maybe).

    so, the conclusion is...never try, never know...is it ?


    if it's true...then, the mystery is solve. but i have another question but not neccessarily related to this topic, just a general question for general knowledge.

    From u guys experience, is it true when people say :

    1) JL subs (mostly) are not quite accurate, not quite fast, not quite tight, not quite transparent compare other SQ subs. JL is rather an SQL sub, punchy, can go low and gives good SPL. True or not ?

    2) Scans 23W and Aliante are very accurate subs, tight, transparent (easy to get up front bass when mounted in trunk) but not so punchy (soft bass), can go low but sometimes can't be heard (low SPL). Need at least 2 pieces if want better SPL when mounted in trunk. True or not ?

 

 
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