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  1. #1
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    [ask] Warna suara dari kapasitor

    Guys, kira2 seberapa besar efek warna suara dengan menggunakan pasif khususnya dengan mengganti kapasitor? n signifikan gak yah?

    n satu lagi karakter dari kapasitor2 dibawah ini kira2 kaya gimana
    1.Bennic
    2.Mundorf supreme,oil,gold
    3.Solen
    4.Hovland musicaps
    5.G.E
    6.lain2 sapa tau ada yang mo nambahin

    thanks sebelumnya
    - Hear what you've never heard before -

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  3. #2
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    Sebaiknya mengunakan Capasitor yang hanya sekitar 5%-10% (Makin kecil makin baik) dan tidak lebih dari 100V, Mengenai merk sangat relatif tergantung kesukaan dari orang tersebut.
    Tentang efek suara, kalau persentasenya kecil suara akan lebih detail dan rapi tapi semua tergantung berapa cuting frekuensi dan faktor Q.

  4. #3
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    kalau yang 400v kenapa bos? faktor q kalau boleh tau apa tuh bos? nyubi askin
    - Hear what you've never heard before -

  5. #4
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    Bro Ini ada cap review from a fellow audiophile DIY yang aktif di internet, ini bukan patokan mutlak but its a very good review nevertheless thx to tony from netherland!






    -AmpOhm FP-CA-AU 630VDC – 5% tolerance
    Sound: The Amp Ohm FP-CA-AU is a very neutral sounding capacitor that takes a nice smooth and calm approach to the reproduction of music. I found the balance of the midrange very pleasing letting acoustic instruments keep their natural warm tone. Absolute detail and air isn’t quite up to the level of an Audyn Cap Plus or Mundorf Supreme but it comes very close although they do need some time to open up so don’t judge them fresh out of the box. Spatiality is broad with reasonable depth but if you want “bowling alley” depth go for (the much more expensive) Mundorf Silver/Oil.

    -Arcotronics MKP-C4G 600VDC – 5% tolerance

    Sound: The Arcotronics cap is a modest sounding capacitor, a little on the quiet side concerning dynamics. I quite like the midrange quality especially with percussion music. Drums, etc had a nice natural timbre. There seems to be a focus on the midrange, the treble is slightly rolled off. Spatiality is a little compromised resulting in a slightly distant and compact image. Overall detail is slightly better than a standard Audyn Cap for example but doesn’t compete with an Ampohm or Mundorf Supreme. A good MKP for basic filter applications.



    -ASC X386S MKP in oil 600VDC – 10% tolerance


    Sound: They sound a bit dull at first because they take a while to burn-in. But after a few days of normal use they deliver a wide and open sound stage. Nice and neutral, maybe a slightly warm sound. One of those things that don’t impress at first but sort of grow on you after a while, you learn to appreciate their qualities – great! If you want a lively and bright sounding filter then this is not your cap (try a Hovland Musicap instead), if you are looking for a smooth, warm and relaxed sound then give these a try.


    -Audio Cap PPMF MKP 200VDC – 10% tolerance

    Sound: Slightly more detail, depth and separation than a standard Mundorf M-Cap but slightly less than a Hovland Musicap. The M-Cap has a more “round” character, the Audio Cap PPMF a more “glazy” character – for the rest I find them reasonably neutral.

    -Audio Cap Theta PPT MKP-Sn 200VDC – 10% tolerance

    Sound: These cap’s have a lean, clinical brightness to them but at the same time lack transparency. A form of artificial clarity is created by means of a treble “glare” in the top end – at least they don’t have a loudness effect. They work well in opening-up a dull, lifeless speaker but that’s about it. Use them as a small value bypass cap only; they will clean up a cheap Intertechnik Audyn Cap nicely. But costing far more than an ERO MKP1837 I don’t really see the point of buying them.

    -Clarity Cap PW MKP 160VDC – 5% tolerance


    Sound: The Clarity Cap range have an overall similarity in tonal balance, going up the range you gain clarity and spaciality. I found the PW to be neutral with a slightly warmish presentation. Compared to the PX there is a loss of detail but they never sound dark. Compared to a standard Mundorf M-Cap the stereo-image is a little larger. The price/quality ratio is very good. I can recommend this capacitor if you have a tight budget and like a speaker to be as smooth as possible.


    -Clarity Cap PX MKP 250VDC – 5% tolerance

    Sound: The Clarity Cap range have an overall similarity in tonal balance, going up the range you gain clarity and spaciality. I found the PX to be neutral with a slightly warmish presentation. Compared to a standard Mundorf M-Cap the stereo-image is a larger but less spacious than a Mundorf Supreme or Audyn Cap Plus. Clarity is a good step up from the PW and also the M-Cap. The price/quality ratio is very good. I can highly recommend this capacitor if you are looking for a nice, but not too expensive MKP.

    -Clarity Cap SA MKP 630VDC – 5% tolerance

    Sound: The Clarity Cap range have an overall similarity in tonal balance, going up the range you gain clarity and spaciality. I found the SA to be neutral with a slightly warmish presentation. Compared to the Audyn Cap Plus definition and seperation are better, the stereo-image is also little larger. I did find the top end to be slightly rolled-off, not that they lacked detailed but on some recordings I wanted a fraction more transparancy – but all in all still very nice. A nice alternative in the upper range capacitors.



    -Ducati 4.16.10 - 400VAC – 5% tolerance


    Sound: This industrial type capacitor (like the ASC and Inco) is quite nice! They sound a bit dull at first because they take a while to burn-in. But after a few days of normal use they deliver a reasonably wide and open sound stage. Nice and neutral, maybe a slightly warm sound. One of those things that don’t impress at first but sort of grow on you after a while, you learn to appreciate their qualities – great! Not the ultimate in sound staging or micro-detail and if you want a lively and bright sounding filter then this is not your cap. But if you are looking for a smooth, warm and relaxed sound then give these a try – very good price-to-performance ratio!

    -Duelund VSF Copper Capacitor - VAC? – 2% tolerance


    Sound: WOW! Now I know how natural a capacitor can sound! They are super natural, smooth, clear, open, and at the same time they stay calm and controlled but delivering dynamics when the music calls for it. The tonal balance is near perfection, especially audible on acoustic instruments and the human voice. This makes my classical music collection so much more realistic. Also I was very pleased with the seperation of every individual instrument in an orchestra, the string section is much more a group of individuals rather than just a group. In comparison I found the Mundorf Silver/Gold to be a little over-etched sometimes. My new reference!


    -Evox-Rifa PHE 450 MKP 250VDC – 5% tolerance


    Sound: The Evox-Rifa PHE 450 is a very transparent and clear sounding capacitor, some times a little too “fresh” sounding but this character can be compensated by adding a capacitor with a more round character – I had very good results with about 10% of the total value made up from Angela (Jensen) paper in oil. On its own I find the midrange a little under exposed and the treble has a slight “glaze” over it, which again can be removed by bypassing it with a Vishay MKP1837. Imaging is quite good with a nice sized soundstage but only average separation. Dynamics are nice and snappy and the treble is nicely detailed. It might seem that I am not too keen on the PHE 450 but this is just a way of trying to describe its character in words – I still find it a very nice little capacitor! I can imagine the smaller values would also work well as a bypass capacitor. This capacitor has a very high price/quality ratio and matching it with other capacitors to create a custom capacitor gives very good results.


    -Hovland Musicap MKP 100VDC – 2,5% tolerance


    Sound: “MusiCaps deliver fine dynamics, speed, focus, correct timbre and depth of field, and good inter-transient silence” – I can’t agree more on this! But I must say I have a love/hate relationship with them: they don’t mate with all types of tweeters. If in series with a very nice soft-dome tweeter they seem to bring out more detail than usual from such a tweeter compared to when used with other caps. I had good results with Scan speak soft domes and for the Dynaudio D260 Esotec I couldn’t imagine a better cap in this price range. But if the tweeter tends to be a tad on the bright or clinic side they sound awful. Of course you do get more detail and a better sound-stage compared to if you used an Audyn Cap or LeClanché but for example I tried them with the Focal tweeter in the Auriga and this didn’t work at all! It hurt my ears! Here’s a good tip: When tweaking a combo with a Scan speak D2905-9700 I found the best to be a 50/50% combination of the Hovland Musicap with a Mundorf Supreme Cap.

    -Inco Sintex 45T D2BS MKP 425VAC – 5% tolerance

    Sound: This industrial type capacitor (like the ASC) is quite nice! They sound a bit dull at first because they take a while to burn-in. But after a few days of normal use they deliver a reasonably wide and open sound stage. Nice and neutral, maybe a slightly warm sound. One of those things that don’t impress at first but sort of grow on you after a while, you learn to appreciate their qualities – great! Not the ultimate in sound staging or micro-detail and if you want a lively and bright sounding filter then this is not your cap. But if you are looking for a smooth, warm and relaxed sound then give these a try – very good price-to-performance ratio!


    -Intertechnik Audyn Cap MKP-QS 400VDC – 5% tolerance

    Sound: The Audyn Cap is a good step–up from cheap electrolytic capacitors often found in standard quality factory built speakers. Nothing wrong with them but also nothing exciting. Compared with electrolytics they have much more detail, smoothness and a wider stereo image. Compared to an Audyn Cap Plus they sound dull, mushy and closed-in. Your basic good old MKP for all basic filter applications, espcially when not in the signal path. A good substitute for electrolytics.


    -Intertechnik Audyn Cap Plus MKP 800VDC – 2% tolerance

    Sound: The Audyn Cap Plus is a nice high-end capacitor! They sound a bit hard at first and have a sort of midrange haze because they take a while to burn-in. But after a few days of normal use they deliver a very spatial sound with lots of depth that only gets better as time passes. Good reproduction of musical nuances. Furthermore, the effect is not only achieved with very expensive high-end components. It delivers a significant enhancement in more price-conscious configurations, making it a very worthwhile upgrade even though it is a little expensive. Clarity, depth, detail and openness are there. When I first switched over to these I thought, “this is it!” even though they were fresh from the shelf (but that was a few years ago). They sound a little more mid-range forward compared to the equally good Mundorf Supreme Cap. Although they are expensive, the degree of improvement is a value compared to the cost of high-end cables and interconnects.


    -LeClanché PPM MKP 250VDC – 5% tolerance

    Sound: Similar in character to the Mundorf M-CAP but with more detail right down into the midrange. Pleasant open sounding and smooth. Less depth than the ASC MKP in oil. I quite like these!

    -Mundorf M-Cap MKP 400VDC – 3% tolerance


    Sound: I find the Mundorf M-CAP a little better than the Intertechnik MKP QS. The difference in sound quality is reflected in the price: also a little higher. Nothing extreme but noticeable, especially if all capacitors in your filter are M-Cap’s. A little livelier than the Audyn Cap MKP-QS with slightly more midrange openness. Prices can vary a bit, so it is worthwhile to checkout different suppliers.


    -Mundorf RXF MKP 600VDC – 3% tolerance

    Sound: Compared to the M-Cap they are cleaner and more transparant. The M-Cap's are slightly more midrange focussed. The RXF are nicely detailed without being "edgy" but could be a little smoother sometimes, they tend to draw your attention to the top-end more than the rest. This top-end focus does gather points regarding the retrival of ambient information and reverberation. But I find the lower treble lacks some refinement, a bit "in your face". They do get better over time but a slight "glare" stays. The Supreme is similar in spatial information but more refined and therefore better. I also find the Clarity Cap PX to be smoother, rounder and therefore scores better in long trem listening. This is most evident on well recorded classical music. Overall I am still very positive about the RXF (especially considering the price) and see them as a welcome arrival for the budget sensitive user. They could also be a handy upgrade for existing crossovers were space is limited because they are built more compact than regular tube-shaped capacitors of the same value.


    -Mundorf Supreme Cap MKP 800VDC – 2% tolerance
    Sound: The M-CAP SUPREME is another high-end capacitor! It delivers a very spatial sound with lots of depth. Good reproduction of the musical nuances. Detail and depth from the high treble right down into the low mid-range. Furthermore, the effect is not only achieved with very expensive high-end components. It delivers a significant enhancement in more price-conscious configurations, making it a very worthwhile upgrade. Clear and transparent sounding cap with a good sound stage. They provide an improvement in clarity, focus and dynamics compared to standard quality MKP’s. Although they are a little expensive, the degree of improvement is a value compared to the cost of high-end cables and interconnects. I must say I was impressed! (at the time). Prices can vary a bit, so it is worthwhile to checkout different suppliers.


    -Mundorf M-Cap Supreme Silver/Oil MKP 1200VDC – 2% tolerance (typ. 1%)


    Sound: The M-CAP SUPREME SILVER/OIL is one of my favourite capacitors! I can only underline what Mundorf states: “………wonderfully spacious and detailed sound reproduction ………an even fuller and smoother tonal richness and diversity. This capacitor’s ability to bring out the finest nuances and the subtlest distinctions make the music sound more alive and “juicy”, yet without unnatural emphasis of any individual effects. ………wonderfully spacious music reproduction……… ”.

    A true high-end capacitor! Music! Detail and depth throughout from top to bottom. Very smooth and liquid. To exaggerate things: it makes a standard Supreme Cap sound slightly rough!


    -Mundorf M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold 1200VDC – 2% tolerance


    Sound: Nicely clear and transparent, rich textured treble, very spacious – front to back and left to right, very good separation of individual instruments, deep black background, clean and dynamic, heaps of micro-detail information, the details get high-lighted a little. I know one could easily think that this capacitor must be good because everyone says so and it is very expensive but I have tried to keep my objective view and even so I am very impressed. Were I would describe the Silver/Oil as extremely neutral, I would describe the Silver/Gold as extremely natural if you know what I mean. Acoustic instruments like a viola da gamba sound really lifelike. In comparison to the Duelund Copper Foil capacitor they can sound a little bright in the top-end, but this can be a plus point if you want to brighten up a dull sounding system. They are by no means harsh, just a little clear sometimes.

    -North Creek Crescendo Film and Foil MKP 200VDC – 10% tolerance

    Sound: Well all the above is just sales talk! Okay, they are very good capacitors with good separation of the individual instruments and a nice deep sound stage but the major drawback is they have a sort of “loudness” built-in, like with the Hovland Musicap (of which they remind me of the most) I have a love/hate relationship with them: they don’t mate with all types of tweeters, they don’t make an excellent match for most aluminium and titanium domes. I tried them in the new HATT-MkIII and felt like wanting to increase the L-pad function of the tweeter. If in series with a very nice soft-dome tweeter they seem to bring out more detail than usual from such a tweeter compared to when used with other caps. I had good results with the Seas Excel tweeter used in the Mezzo Proteus but other soft-domes should also benefit the same way. If the tweeter tends to be a little on the bright or clinic side they sound awful. But you do get more detail and a better sound stage compared to if you used an Audyn Cap or LeClanché. Here’s a good tip: Use them as a bypass cap only; they will clean up a cheap Intertechnik Audyn Cap nicely.


    Solen Châteauroux Fast Cap PB-MKP-FC 400VDC – 5% tolerance

    Sound: The Solen Châteauroux Fast cap is a good step–up from MKT capacitors often found in standard quality factory built speakers. Like the standard Intertechnik Audyn Cap nothing wrong with them but also nothing exciting, but if I had to choose between the two I would still go for the Solen, they seem to have a fraction more “musicality” to them. Compared with electrolytics they have much more detail, smoothness and a wider stereo image. Compared to a Mundorf Supreme Cap they sound closed-in. Midrange is slightly forward compared to more neutral caps, they can be a little “nasal” sounding in some configurations. Due to this “character” they would make a good match with Focal tweeters for example. If you have a tight budget then this is a good choise!

    -Sonic Craft Sonicap MKP 220VDC – 5% tolerance

    Sound: I can agree on the good price-to-performance ratio! You get a nice capacitor for a reasonable price – nearly 4 times the price of an Intertechnik Audyn Cap but still only half the price of an Audyn Cap Plus or Mundorf Supreme. Compared to a standard Mundorf M-Cap they are more transparent and clearer with lots more depth. Even more detail and separation can be created by bypassing them with an MKP1837 (a good tweak for any capacitor!). They reveal micro-information in a way that reminds me of a Hovland Musicap but without the Hovland loudness effect. I didn’t find them to mix well with other cap’s – a 50/50 mix with a standard Mundorf M-Cap gave me the funny sensation of listening to two different cap’s at the same time. I can advise them if you are looking for a “high-end” cap but are on a “tight” budget.

    -Super PP capacitor (SPP) MKP 400VDC – 5% tolerance

    Sound: First of all they need a much longer burn-in time than most capactors, in the beginning they are rather agressive. After burn-in I still find the top-end over-etched which gives it a slightly artificial treble. They are well detailed but I find the midrange a little under exposed, maybe they would work well in a dull sounding speaker. Spatiality is good, probably due to the high-lighted top-end but only average separation. I find them similar in character to the Evox Rifa PHE-450. They benefit a lot from a paper-in-oil bypass capacitor. For their low price they perform well.



    -Vishay Roederstein MKP1837 (a.k.a. ERO MKP1830) 0,01mF MKP 100VDC – 1% tolerance


    Sound: I was tipped by Klaus Witte of Germany to try this capacitor as a bypass cap for the Mundorf M-CAP SUPREME. I tried them as a bypass for the tweeter series caps in my Progress speaker and I must say I am very impressed! To get straight to the point they don't change a Supreme into a Supreme Silver-Oil but they really do clear things up. I must admit I was sceptical at first as the value is only 10nF (0,01uF) - and the caps in the Progress are 12,6uF. The difference is most noticeable with classical music but also good quality recordings of jazz and fusion benefit: No change in soundstage width or depth but there is more "concert hall acoustics" that let you get into the recording more. Not as liquid as silver/oil but they take away the "grainy" edge from the Supreme's. A gain in clarity and transparency making instruments better separable from each other, the violins in an orchestra are a group of individual violins instead of one mass. Jazz drum brushes sound more like a brush than a "shush"

    - LCR Capacitors FSC tubular foil polystyrene, axial lead 0,01mF 160Vdc – 2,5% tolerance

    Sound: Like the MKP1837 they really clear things up. The difference is most noticeable with classical music but also other good quality recordings benefit: No change in soundstage width or depth but there is more "concert hall acoustics" that let you get into the recording more. They take away the "grainy" edge from any capacitor. A gain in clarity and transparency making instruments better separable from each other, the violins in an orchestra are a group of individual violins instead of one mass. Jazz drum brushes sound more like a brush than a "shush".
    REVEALING SOUND@BSD
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  6. #5
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    Beda bennic sama M-cap supreme enggak jauh lha, cuma seperti beda antara avansa sama harrier aja koq. :smt003

    Aku sih enggak begitu peduli angka toleransi/volt, nanti jadinya Solen specnya sama dengan hovland. cuma kalau mau tau ya dicoba sendiri aja, cari toko yang punya semua :smt004

  7. #6
    Kapten
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    @revvou
    thanks bos, kalo ada info lagi sharing yah

    @unsac
    toko yang punya semua n bisa di test denger? tau dimana bos ? hehe seru juga kalo ada yang jualan kaya gitu
    - Hear what you've never heard before -

  8. #7
    Kapten
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    disurabaya aja ada boss..tp jauh dr tempat anda..

  9. #8
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    di surabaya jual dimana emang?

  10. #9
    Kapten
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    hwely audio bos..

  11. #10
    Represented Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by eternity
    hwely audio bos..
    Dia punyanya cuma Hovland, Bennic (kuning), AudioPhiler(kuning) Solen (hitam-kawat), MCap (putih).
    Enggak terlalu lengkap, tapi memang yang harganya enggak terlalu khayal (kecuali Hovland)
    Kalo standart tinggal pilih Solen (Straight type sound) atau Mcap (Mellow type sound) akhir-akhir ini lebih sering pake solen soalnya mcap barusan naik tinggi sekali, sementara solen masih belum.
    Kalo bennic biasanya cuma buat midbass.

  12. #11
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    ohh...
    ok2 thx a lot

  13. #12
    Kolonel
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    Wah.. mayan kumplit neh. Thankss..

  14. #13
    Letnan Kolonel
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    Kalo pengen lebih live bisa pake caps tertentu ga? Harusnya sih pake power tabung hehehe.. :smt003

  15. #14
    Kapten
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    gw rasa power tabung terkenal sama warmnya n gak kaku suaranya dibanding solidstate...btw menurut pecinta tabung gimana nih?
    - Hear what you've never heard before -

  16. #15
    Letnan Kolonel
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    Gw jg cinta power tabung lho.. cman blum mampu beli + upgrade nya :smt003

 

 
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